Just want to point out that it was mostly THIS VACCINE scepticism. The very little amount of time it took to develop, the very little amount of actual study being done on it, the complete dearth of a long term study (we still have at least another 5 years until we see that data). That explains the bulk of it. No matter how much media rea…
Just want to point out that it was mostly THIS VACCINE scepticism. The very little amount of time it took to develop, the very little amount of actual study being done on it, the complete dearth of a long term study (we still have at least another 5 years until we see that data). That explains the bulk of it. No matter how much media reasoning or government arguments being made, none of that would have changed much scepticism. In fact, I'd argue that much of this caused more scepticism. Particularly the mandates themselves. Imagine having a product so good that you effectively need to take people's freedoms away for not taking it. Think about that one for a minute.
The vaccines are such a good product that the government felt the need to effectively force people to take them on penalty of having many former freedoms taken from them. Now, does that make you more or less confident in said products safety/effectiveness? For a person like myself, and many others in my proximity, it makes me a heck of a lot less confident.
Oh, cool, another "Venn Diagram Slice" I didn't even think of.
To repeat, I think it's a very, very tiny slice of the Convoy that hates mandates but totally accepts all vaccines themselves.
I suspect, of the very large slice that is not just mandate-hating, but won't take the vaccine itself, well over half won't accept any vaccine at all, whereas well under half are only concerned about the COVID vaccines. By the time the convoy rolled, there were also "good 'ol fashioned" vaccines like Novavax and Johnson&Johnson, but I didn't see a single sign or protester comment that indicated they were waiting for the "right" vaccine to come along. Every interview devolved into general anti-vax complaints, with not one of them distinguishing between different types or brands.
If you could provide a link to such an interview, or pictures of protesters with brand-related concerns about only the new vaccines, please educate us.
Who cares? Is simply being against all vaccines make you a terrible person who deserves to have your rights and freedoms taken away? I'll wait for a direct answer, though I don't expect to get one.
It doesn't matter where they stand on this or that vaccine. I was merely pointing out that this went too far for a lot of people (vaccinated, unvaccinated, against mandates). The whole thing was shady to begin with. And heck, I didn't even specify one brand of "vaccine" myself. I think many were taking a wait and see approach, an approach that is merely unacceptable to those pushing for mandates (how dare you question the vaccines!?! No restaurants for you!).
On the contrary, this is the perfect "razor" to shave off the difference between scientific thinking, and magical thinking.
Those who concede that vaccines, as a basic concept, have 200 years of success behind them, beat smallpox and polio, have saved millions of lives and taken almost none via side-effects - BUT, do say: "a new vaccine technology hasn't been tried widely, I want extensive testing before I take one" are thinking scientifically about long-agreed facts, expressing skepticism the vaccinologists would approve. They'd be eager to show you their data! They were skeptics going in, didn't come forward until they could prove it.
Those who think all vaccines are inherently unsafe are thinking differently from that. The vaccinologists would see no point in showing them data or any other argument, argument being useless.
You know what the difference between you and I is?
I don't feel the need to compel people to agree with my worldview whereas you do. That's the core of this whole thing. Who cares about anti-vaxxers or not? The core of the issue is compelling people to do something that they don't want to do, regardless of their worldview.
I'm not forcing people not to take the jab, but you want to force people to take it.
Randy "doesn't feel the need to compel people to agree with him" but insists everyone who doesn't agree with his stupid moronic ignorance is wrong. Using too many words.
I'm also not calling anyone who thinks differently than me "stupid, moronic and ignorant." Why do much animosity towards someone who disagrees? Why have you so much hate in your heart?
Randy is just not very bright and I'm guessing he's a middle aged guy who got his polio and small pox shots in grade school. Now he's raving all vaccines are bad, including the ones that kept him healthy.
That's a good straw man. I've never said any of those things. But now you've just resorted to the typical "oh he's just a crazy anti-vaxxers. Disregard"
This is the problem with this whole thing. The assumption that anyone who disagrees is just a dumb middle aged guy. How incredibly "tolerant" of you Leftists. What a time to be alive.
"Magical thinking", yeah that's a good way to put it, shows how much respect you have for people who disagree.
Yet again, you're running on some false assumptions here. The idea that all vaccinologists agree on these vaccines (they don't), the idea that the entire medical community is unanimous (it isn't), and the "magical thinking" that scientists are even permitted to speak out on these vaccines without the risk of losing their jobs. That's the over magical thinking there.
Just want to point out that it was mostly THIS VACCINE scepticism. The very little amount of time it took to develop, the very little amount of actual study being done on it, the complete dearth of a long term study (we still have at least another 5 years until we see that data). That explains the bulk of it. No matter how much media reasoning or government arguments being made, none of that would have changed much scepticism. In fact, I'd argue that much of this caused more scepticism. Particularly the mandates themselves. Imagine having a product so good that you effectively need to take people's freedoms away for not taking it. Think about that one for a minute.
The vaccines are such a good product that the government felt the need to effectively force people to take them on penalty of having many former freedoms taken from them. Now, does that make you more or less confident in said products safety/effectiveness? For a person like myself, and many others in my proximity, it makes me a heck of a lot less confident.
You need to read more about MRNA vaccines which have been under research for 30 years. COVID was the (almost) new thing, not the vaccine science.
And yet they had never been used on people at this level before. Fascinating.
Another ignorant comment.
Oh, cool, another "Venn Diagram Slice" I didn't even think of.
To repeat, I think it's a very, very tiny slice of the Convoy that hates mandates but totally accepts all vaccines themselves.
I suspect, of the very large slice that is not just mandate-hating, but won't take the vaccine itself, well over half won't accept any vaccine at all, whereas well under half are only concerned about the COVID vaccines. By the time the convoy rolled, there were also "good 'ol fashioned" vaccines like Novavax and Johnson&Johnson, but I didn't see a single sign or protester comment that indicated they were waiting for the "right" vaccine to come along. Every interview devolved into general anti-vax complaints, with not one of them distinguishing between different types or brands.
If you could provide a link to such an interview, or pictures of protesters with brand-related concerns about only the new vaccines, please educate us.
*sigh*
Who cares? Is simply being against all vaccines make you a terrible person who deserves to have your rights and freedoms taken away? I'll wait for a direct answer, though I don't expect to get one.
It doesn't matter where they stand on this or that vaccine. I was merely pointing out that this went too far for a lot of people (vaccinated, unvaccinated, against mandates). The whole thing was shady to begin with. And heck, I didn't even specify one brand of "vaccine" myself. I think many were taking a wait and see approach, an approach that is merely unacceptable to those pushing for mandates (how dare you question the vaccines!?! No restaurants for you!).
Give me a break, man.
On the contrary, this is the perfect "razor" to shave off the difference between scientific thinking, and magical thinking.
Those who concede that vaccines, as a basic concept, have 200 years of success behind them, beat smallpox and polio, have saved millions of lives and taken almost none via side-effects - BUT, do say: "a new vaccine technology hasn't been tried widely, I want extensive testing before I take one" are thinking scientifically about long-agreed facts, expressing skepticism the vaccinologists would approve. They'd be eager to show you their data! They were skeptics going in, didn't come forward until they could prove it.
Those who think all vaccines are inherently unsafe are thinking differently from that. The vaccinologists would see no point in showing them data or any other argument, argument being useless.
You know what the difference between you and I is?
I don't feel the need to compel people to agree with my worldview whereas you do. That's the core of this whole thing. Who cares about anti-vaxxers or not? The core of the issue is compelling people to do something that they don't want to do, regardless of their worldview.
I'm not forcing people not to take the jab, but you want to force people to take it.
Just admit it.
Randy "doesn't feel the need to compel people to agree with him" but insists everyone who doesn't agree with his stupid moronic ignorance is wrong. Using too many words.
I'm also not calling anyone who thinks differently than me "stupid, moronic and ignorant." Why do much animosity towards someone who disagrees? Why have you so much hate in your heart?
Hey, I'm not the one compelling people to do something based on faulty science that is wrong.
Randy is just not very bright and I'm guessing he's a middle aged guy who got his polio and small pox shots in grade school. Now he's raving all vaccines are bad, including the ones that kept him healthy.
That's a good straw man. I've never said any of those things. But now you've just resorted to the typical "oh he's just a crazy anti-vaxxers. Disregard"
This is the problem with this whole thing. The assumption that anyone who disagrees is just a dumb middle aged guy. How incredibly "tolerant" of you Leftists. What a time to be alive.
"Magical thinking", yeah that's a good way to put it, shows how much respect you have for people who disagree.
Yet again, you're running on some false assumptions here. The idea that all vaccinologists agree on these vaccines (they don't), the idea that the entire medical community is unanimous (it isn't), and the "magical thinking" that scientists are even permitted to speak out on these vaccines without the risk of losing their jobs. That's the over magical thinking there.
But keep it up, buddy.